Game Recap (sort of): Michigan State 34 Notre Dame 31
by CW on Sep 20, 2010 7:01 AM EDT
in Notre Dame Football
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PrintA couple weeks ago on Mad Men, Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce creative director Don Draper was talking about a campaign for Samsonite with one of his employees, Peggy Olson. They were struggling to come up with an idea for a new luggage campaign when Peggy confessed to her boss that she can no longer tell the difference between something good and something awful. Draper's reply? "Well, they're very close."
I feel the same thing about winning and losing, because the line between the two is so incredibly thin sometimes, such as the last two weeks for the Irish. How many times were there Saturday night when Notre Dame could have put the Spartans away with one or two big plays? An extra yard here and a half-second on the playclock there and everything is different. By the same token, Michigan State had two possessions at the end of the fourth quarter where one broken tackle or first down would have probably meant doom for the Irish. In the end, Mark Dantonio made a ballsy call, the Irish had it covered but two teammates tripped over one another and now the team is 1-2.
I'm not sure what fans expected from Brian Kelly. Perhaps they wanted some sort of messiah whose every decision was agreed with by all because he was brilliant and perfect, but such a coach doesn't exist. When I read some things Notre Dame fans write, I'm almost certain the Fighting Irish are the only team they follow, and Notre Dame games the only ones they watch. I would wager every individual who has ever coached has done something amazingly stupid or made a gamble that didn't pay off and found themselves being roasted by their fans. Just read Joe Posnanski's column on Twins manager Rod Gardenhire from last week. Twins fans loathe Gardy for all of his weird decisions, yet a brilliant baseball mind like JoePos thinks he's the best in the business. Which side is right? They both are, because coaches are not perfect and familiarity breeds contempt, and they will always do stupid shit that we as fans don't understand. Sometimes there's a reason that's way above our heads, and sometimes they are just terrible coaches (Brad Childress), but they will always do stuff we hate. Brian Kelly is going to do stuff that I hate, and that you hate, and we will shake our heads and say "What the hell was that?". And that will make him no different than any other coach to walk Notre Dame's sideline, or any other sideline in the history of football.
There were obvious issues on this team going into the season that most fans were pretty clear about. Who was going to step up at safety with Kyle McCarthy and his ability to cover up for everyone's mistakes moving on? (So far, no one.) Would the fact the outside linebackers were a mix of inexperienced players and players who had experience not being that great be a problem? (Yes.) How would the offensive line handle replacing three starters? (Really well, actually.) Would the fact Dayne Crist had never started a game before and was learning a new system mean some sort of learning curve? (Yes, but he's getting better every game.) Was back-up quarterback going to be an issue? (Uh, yeah.) This team wasn't going to win a championship, yet when they lose games, it's like the end of the world. I hate losing, too, but I'm not rending garments because a tough opening slate hasn't yielded sterling results.
It shouldn't be that surprising to me that the loudest, most obnoxious and most self-important part of the fanbase is already up in arms and screaming for blood, but I'm still amazed by it. Three games. Three. I've ventured to Rock's House once, just to scan the topics because I don't have time in my life for whiny brats who want it and they want it now. We all went into this season hoping for growth and predicting something in the 8-4 range, give or take a game, yet these last two weeks have been met by so much wailing. I'll quote Jay of the sorely missed BlueGraySky, who summed this up well yesterday:
Most people posited 3-4 losses. Yet when a loss happens, it's hide the razorblades. I guess losses are allowed theoretically; they cannot happen actually.
As Dylan said, if not to Michigan State, who were you thinking we'd lose to? The Dallas Cowboys? '55 Oklahoma? the 1927 Yankees? Tecmo Bowl Bo Jackson?
I don't know if some people realize this, but every weekend, dozens and dozens of college football games are played. Studies show that fifty percent of the participants in these games consistently lose. Sometimes they get blown out by superior competition. Sometimes they get upset by a Division I-AA team. And other times, they lose on a fake field goal in overtime. Notre Dame has lost more than they've won lately, but there isn't going to be a point in the future where they just stop losing games, even if the ghost of Knute Rockne comes back and possesses Kelly. In Nick Saban's first season at Alabama, they lost to Louisiana-Monroe. A host of other championship winning coaches had records hovering around .500 in their first campaign. Success generally does not come easy or quick, and this season is no exception.
As my friend Andrew said, this team needs to take a lesson in Throat Stomping 101. When you have the ball up 28-21, you need to finish things off right then and there. The offense is inconsistent, which is what happens when you have a quarterback making his third career start. Things were better on Saturday, even though the scoreboard didn't show what we wanted it to. Throws to the endzone that ended up in the stands two weeks ago found their way to the receivers. The offensive line continued to block well and Armando Allen continued to run well. Theo Riddick is getting more comfortable as a receiver. There are still areas of concern - What's up with Cierre Wood? Is everything cool with Michael Floyd? - but as Crist continues to grow and mature, those periods of horrible offensive play that have plagued the team through the first three games are going to shrink. If for some reason the five-star quarterback under the tutelage of the guru coach hasn't clearly progressed at the end of the season, we can get concerned. But it's been three weeks. Let's just calm down.
On defense, the same tune: some good things, some things to worry about. I think our corners are just playing really well, and while there are some missed tackles, Carlo Calabrese and Manti Te'o are doing good work in the middle for a pair of young guys just getting comfortable. The other areas of concern on the depth chart that were marked with red flags in the preseason were accurately predicted as problems, but those aren't going to magically get better until new talent arrives and matures. Rome wasn't built in a day, and as I've stated repeatedly, I just want this team to be better in November than it is in September and better in 2011 than it is in 2010. The best players aren't playing at their best yet on either side of the ball, but we're close. Just breathe.
As I said above, I honestly don't know what people expected to happen. This team is improving, despite all the obvious flaws that need corrected (turnovers being a big one). I know it's easier to take the "Oh, woe is me" stance and assume that the sun is never going to peek out, but the team is getting better. It's not getting better at the rate some of us would like, but how can you look at the difference in corner play from last season or in how Crist has improved just from the Purdue game and say you don't see any green shoots? You're lying to yourself and continuing some sort of persecution complex. I know it is fun to win and it is even more fun for some to get up in arms and start screaming bloody murder after losses, but this is a process. I'll join you with the pitchforks and torches when the time comes, but for now, let's just see where this ride takes us for the rest of the season. I know that's not nearly as exciting as hyperventilating about 1986 or 1964, but some of us have to be the mature adults while the children wail away.
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Agree
I think our team is playing with more passion and purpose than I have seen since I became a fan under the Tyrone Willingham period. They are tough and smart. I really believe it will take some time to get to championship level, but Brian Kelly is the right man to lead this team.
Honestly, while watching Saturday evening’s game, I thought, “Wow, these players actually look fit and trim and bigger than I remember ever seeing Notre Dame players.” I believe Coach Kelly’s training and diet program will definitely pay off in the next year and beyond. I believe our players will be faster and stronger and have much more endurance. But, THIS WILL TAKE TIME!
It looks like this year’s recruiting class is building up our Offensive and Defensive Lines, and that is really going to help build this program fast – it seems that is what all the great coaches do from Bill Parcells to Bilicheck to Nick Saban. We must be patient though, and let Brian Kelly develop this program and players the way he has the other schools he has been at. He is facing much tougher opponents than he had to Cincy, so let’s all take a deep breath and just support this team while they are rebuilding!
by Jonathan McCarter on Sep 20, 2010 10:12 AM EDT reply actions
The Sportscenter Syndrome
I think what is bothering a lot of Notre Dame fans (myself included) is what I call the “Sportscenter Syndrome”. We see the progress and acknowledge that Rome wasn’t built in a day, but what makes these losses worse are the fact that they are Sportscenter or College Game Day highlights. Notre Dame players are seen on endless highlights as they whiff on Denard Robinson. The lead story on every college football website is the Boise State-esque gamble Michigan State took to win. These were the kind of “highlight” losses Notre Dame fans became used to under the previous 3 coaches, and seeing them makes many fans immediately think – more of the same.
Was this a backbreaking Kelly regime destroying loss? No. But Notre Dame fans will once again have to go through a week of the final touchdown being shown on Sports Center, columnist like Stewart Mendal praising Michigan State’s greatness and laughing at the Irish, and on Friday everyone saying how great Andrew Luck is and how this weekend’s game will add to his Heisman resume. This kind of 24 hour media hyping will hide all of the excellent points you made in your post that Notre Dame fans should think about (and the national media as well) and just depress the fan base (myself included) more than we should be. That’s why this loss is causing so much angst.
It seemed to be a real problem during the Weis era as well
As soon as 2007 happened. The waters seemed to be chummed with ESPN “experts” predicting the Weis demise, and generally devaluing the program.
You could really feel the levee breaking once we lost to Navy last year.
I hope Brian Kelly has enough national goodwill built up. Hopefully the talking heads will give him a couple of seasons to install his systems.
Hopefully our fan-base and alumni are equally as patient. I got beyond sick and tired of the “back in my day” and “when Ara was coach” crowd over the last couple of seasons.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
If I have to hear one more thing about...
“when i was at ND, and Ara was our coach….”, I’m going to put on a USC shirt. I swear, I’ll do it.
It's a great point
And since there are definitely places on the internet where you can go to get your “Sky is falling” worldview affirmed by other fans, it’s an echo chamber of pathos and freaking out. A lot of people are missing the forest for the trees, and the national news cycle isn’t helping calm nerves.
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
This.
On the one hand, I love seeing the improvement in this team. On the other, I’m so, so, so tired of this team being the Salvation Army giving wins to poor programs. It’s such old cheese.
Couldn’t agree more with the assessment of the DB and OL play. Gary Gray is my favorite defender — he has ball skills, a closing burst and is a sure tackler in open space. On the offensive side, the OL gives Crist so much time to throw that he holds the ball too long at times. What a nice problem to have compared to 2007.
by The Guys Get Shirts! on Sep 20, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I was beginning to mellow.
They’re just 18-22 year old kids (24-28 if you’re one of the mormon schools). The head coach of my alma mater, whom I’ve met on multiple occasions and like, had just had a heart attack. I’ve been through a lot this year with some family health issues and personal transition…then I read this:
I’m so, so, so tired of this team being the Salvation Army giving wins to poor programs.
and remembered why I dislike Notre Dame, its delusional fanbase and want nothing more than to beat them every year.
Thank you.
Is it just me
or is it a backhanded sign of respect that Michigan and Michigan State both clambered into the top 25 on a last second victory over us? To a SMALL degree, I think there are some people who are gleefully gloating over these losses a little more just because in the back of their mind the possibility is looming that there will be many fewer chances in the coming years. If that sentence made any sense.
I will say, I went to grad school at ND starting in 2002 and I’ve certainly never seen the defense stopping the run like it did the first 20, 25 minutes of this game. The overtime series, too. How many tackles for loss or no gain? Midway through the second quarter I thought we’d win 21-10 or something.
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill
I will say this about BK so far
He sure as heck isn’t conservative.
Is it a function of not trusting his defense? Perhaps
But he seems to throw conventional wisdom right out the window. Much the same way that Charlie did.
I hated the Teste’s-less Willingham and Davie game day coaching. Was always nervous at the gambling approach of Weis and Kelly so far.
Can’t we meet somewhere in the middle? A guy who punts from his 40 and kicks the FG with .02 left in the half AND takes reasonable chances? Must it be so extreme?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I take some exception to this
I don’t think the problem is necessarily a disconnect between pre-season expectations and actual play. For me at least, I’m angry because, especially in the case of Mike Floyd, I know these guys have the talent to be better than they’re playing. Floyd spent half the MSU game loafing, dropped an absolutely inexcusable fumble, and just generally looked like a 2 star guy. I know Mike Floyd is better than that. I’ve watched him play better, against better pass defenses. Now, that’s partially on the coaching staff, for not getting him opportunities and not getting him sufficiently motivated, but it’s also on Floyd (and I’m not just confining this to Floyd; it’s a number of players. He’s just the convenient example in this case) to get up for the game and play at the level he’s capable of playing at. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be mad about that. Under-performing players was one of the biggest problems over Charlie, and I did hope that some of that would have changed by now.
Tell me one play where Floyd was loafing
Not saying he didn’t, but please back up your claim. In fact, you should probably give examples of multiple plays where Floyd was loafing since you accused him of doing it for half the game.
Just reply with some times during the game so the rest of us can go back and watch them to see if your attack is accurate.
Sorry, I wasn't taking notes
and I don’t have a DVR. He was jogging out routes, dropping passes I’ve seen him catch, carrying the ball away from his body, and just generally not looking like the player he’s been.
The announcers caught it
I can’t give you a minute mark, but there was one distinct play where the announcers even said “Floyd just didn’t run hard to the ball there.” It was on a slant, and it really looked like he just didn’t think he was going to get thrown to. All of a sudden the ball was there and it was just out of his reach. The replay clearly showed that he could have made a harder cut to the inside and then shot his hands. If the announcers catch it, you know it’s gotta be obvious. :)
I seem to recall other plays less distinctly in the first half, but had the impression for awhile that Floyd felt like he was being underutilized in the offense and thus didn’t have to try as hard. I’m probably way off base, but that was my overall impression of him early on. Later obviously he was playing better, so hopefully he’ll parlay that into success the rest of the year. An emerging Theo Riddick will help open him up, but Theo has to catch more balls as well.
Theo
Riddick played MUCH better this week. I was actually excited when he got the ball in his hands. It seemed like his presence actually served a purpose. He certainly has room to improve, but I am very excited about his progress.
I do remember that slant play. I don’t agree with Todd Blackledge’s assessment though. The replay they showed was a weird angle (he may have been cutting it slow to avoid an LB or S in the middle). Nevertheless, let’s give protocoach that one. Still have a ways to go to get to half the game.
I was not about to accuse Floyd of loafing,
but I did scream at the TV, “You were catching those for Charlie Weis!”
Then I watched the Colts game the following night, and I recalled that I’m used to getting spoiled watching the Peyton Manning Extravaganza, and was probably not giving him or the other receivers enough credit. Still seemed like a lot of dropped catchable passes, though.
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill
Well, if Todd Blackledge and Brad Nessler said it happened, then it must be true.
I remember that play. I also remember that those two are idiots.
Brad Nessler is awesome
The only college football play-by-play guys I’d take over him are Ron Franklin and Verne.
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
by CW on Sep 20, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Nessler is solid
Verne is my favorite. I also like that guy that is with Rod Gilmore.
Does Gus Johnson ever do college football?
I forgot Joe Tessitore
He’s great, too, but exiled to Friday nights. I think Gus maybe does some CBS College sports games. Not often enough.
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
by CW on Sep 20, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't expect to see any evidence for that whopper
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 21, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
I think Floyd’s downfield blocking on run plays continued to be strong. I don’t recall him loafing on any routes, but would be open to finding some. I assume the game is up on ESPN3 or whatever that thing is called. Let us know if you find anything. I tried to find a stat for the number of times he was targeted, but failed. Let us know what you find.
Apparently those must be the plays where he is not loafing?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 21, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
My Three Cents
I agree with much of whats being said. Im not sure Floyd is loafing it, because he has had some devastating blocks in the run game. But he doesn’t seem like the same Michael Floyd in the passing game… Perhaps he just hasn’t fully gotten a handle of the new passing game, but I think he definitely will return to form. Perhaps its because he has put the ball on the turf and can’t get out of his own head.
I don’t want to be the guy that makes excuses, but has anyone heard anything about the last play with may or may not had zero seconds on the playclock?
And Lastly… I absolutely love Joe Posnanski, I frequent his blog, and his sports writing is second to none.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
Probably the best piece on ND I've read all year. Agree 100%
Why anyone turns to Rock’s House for any other reason than to be reminded that our fan base is far from perfect, or even far from possessing a high degree of football intelligence is beyond me. That place has been, and will continue to be, a miserable, hopeless place until Kelly has the championship ring on his finger. Thank the Lord they aren’t making decisions at the AD’s office.
Believe it or not, i actually think they’re whining over 2 VERY hard fought losses takes the annoying cake of believing and then criticizing the ND Admin for hiring Kelly on conjecture. We had Meyer, we had Gruden, we had Stoops, blah blah blah. Enough. Where did Mack Brown come from? UNC. That’s where. The basketball school. Grow up.
Thank you so, so much for this post.
Actually even if ND won the title
the Rock’s House crowd would find something to complain about. That place is the biggest collection of morons anywhere on the planet.
by DQ on Sep 21, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s endemic across all of college football, ESPECIALLY on the internet.
I’m a Michigan fan (don’t kill me), and I’ve spent 3 days reading comments about how Rodriguez needs to be fired for not beating UMass by enough points. Some people just like to complain, and will find something to complain about in any situation.
Nevermind that Brian Kelly has been riotously successful at every stop on his resume – many think they know better.
http://www.wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
Agreed
Blue Gray sky was littered with that crap all season (and well before our season fell apart after Navy).
We were litterally 4-1 with only a razor close and questionable loss to Michigan. Yet all you heard was “In my day, we beat everyone by 30+” and “When Ara was coach, we only used 10 players at a time”. College football coaching is a thankless job.
Hell, they were starting to call for Pete Carroll toward the end of last year. Talk about a fan base getting spoiled.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Never posted at Rock's house
I posted at Blue Gray Sky, and at Irish Envy.
I’m also just talking about commenter folks in gameday threads. Not the actual sight proprietors.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Just hearing the moans at Rock's House has, unfortunately, caused me to look at Ara with a little contempt.
I’m not saying that’s okay, I’m just saying what I feel.
Um, are you saying that we should of been happy with *that* 4-1?
We had a 3 year starter at QB and top draft picks at both WR spots and at TE. Weis was in his 5th year and had 3 straight top recruiting classes. There was no excuse for losing to a bad Michigan team and failing to blow out mediocre Purdue, MSU and Washington teams. There were obvious problems with that team that were revealed with the later loss to USC and 4-game losing streak to finish out the season.
We won't.
Every win on your resume makes ND look better, now. I hope RickRod’s master plan to embarrass Ohio State is coming together nicely.
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill
frustration
The biggest part of the problem is pure frustration at the repetitious nature of everything we are seeing. This is not the first time in the last 15 years that we have felt that ND was at the crest of the proverbial “hump.” It seemed that way in 02’, again in 05, at the Hawaii Bowl and the subsequent season opener. Hell, even Davie gave us a moment – the 2000 game against Nebraska, going toe-to-toe with the number 1 team in the nation. All of those turned out to be mirages. The fanbase is now so convinced that it will be left with a mouthful of sand that we have developed a psychological coping mechanism of refusing to drink… kool-aid, water, you pick the substance.
Also, I think that the loss of BGS really has left the “rational” ND fans (myself included) a bit disoriented. the NDnation message boards suck, and many of the ND blogs have good stuff, but are inconsistent with the frequency and quality of posts. This is my first time commenting, but i’ll keep reading and hope the conversation continues!
Part of the reason also is we are chasing ghosts
The mythology of ND yore, has left many in the base with unrealistic expectations. Too many variables now, that we didn’t have the face in the “Glory days”.
-85 schollies
-Practice limitations that we likely really adhere to
-Many more programs at the D1 level
-Power conferences with TV deals
Not even taking into account kids today are less thrilled about being in South Bend when they could be in LA or a warm weather SEC college town.
Its just much more of an uphill climb than it once was. We aren’t going to be able to outclass the rest of CFB like we once could. Too much parity.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Great post.
God, I wish you guys could quit your day jobs and fill the void left by the BGS. The non-batshit-crazy segment of the ND fan base needs you. I’m quite certain that if I had come of age in the internet era, and NDN was my primary source of exposure to our fan base, I would have wound up being an OSU fan and a passionate ND-hater. They really are an unlikeable bunch, and too lacking in self-awareness to realize that everyone is laughing at them.
Yes, the losses are frustrating, and yes, BK has shown some Weisian tendencies with some head-scratching calls. That said, the fatal flaw of Weis (and Boob and Ty) was the complete inability to build a program with sustained improvement, not the 1-2 stupid in-game decisions they made on a semi-regular basis. Kelly, on the other hand, has 20 years of doing exactly this. He might well fail in the end, but it is beyond idiotic to render a final judgement 3 games into year 1.
Every whiny, sniveling NDN poster who is ready to throw in the towel on BK should be forced to read the Wikipedia pages of Holtz, Stoops, Meyer, Tressel, Saban, and Carroll. They all had subpar first seasons despite inheriting a cupboard stocked with 4-5 star talent.
NDNation serves a purpose
Notre Dame fans should not forget that the expectation should be national titles. While perhaps it is unrealistic to expect a national title this season, NDNation reminds fans to keep our expectations high and not be satisfied with a BCS every couple of years or something similar. It’s been so long since ND was good, that we need people from Lou and Ara’s era to remind us of what ND used to be, and what it can be in the future.
Perhaps
But we have to live in TODAY’S ERA.
Best case for long term expectations need to be closer to the last 10 years of Ohio State football for us. I just don’t see any way we can expect to mirror USC, Florida or Alabama in modern times. They just have far too many built in advantages.
Can we beat them from time to time and maybe win a NC every 10 or 15 years? Probably
Should we expect to win a NC every year? Absolutely not
Unrealistic expectations are nothing but setting the program up for failure. Its the walk to school uphill both ways of the 60 years old + of ND’s football fanbase.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Excuses
You seem to be making a lot of excuses and justifications these last two days. I am all for being rational and not freaking out after 3 games, but JSB’s post was a fine reminder.
Winning a NC every 10-15 years should be no one’s goal, especially ND’s. Even considering all the lame reasons listed in your previous post, ND can certainly attain the success that USC and Florida have over the last decade and Miami the decade before.
It's not making excuses
I think I deserve to date Julia Roberts. However if I just expect it to happen. What good does that really do me?
Other than a 3-5 year Lou Holtz stretch. What has been the consistent level of success in South Bend? Do Army fans constantly harp on program expectations?
A Jim Tressel at OSU is probably a realistic long term outlook. To me that would be a smashing success. To others that equals firing yet another coach and “Waking up the Echos”.
It ain’t 1950 anymore. It’s just the way it is.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
What horrific straw men
Army hasn’t been a good program since the ‘50s. ND was a great program in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and early 90s. There is no comparison. We have had a terrible stretch of bad coaches, it happens to even programs that you think have too many advantages to truly compete with: USC in the ’90s, Alabama in the late ’90s and early ’00s and Texas in the ’90s. Instead of settling for mediocrity, ND needs to demand excellence from it’s coaches like those programs do.
As far as a ND coach being fired for achieving Tressel-like results, when that happens let me know. Tressel has won 10 games nearly every year (7 of 9), has won 1 national title, has played in two other BCS title games, played in BCS games 7 of 9 years and has dominated OSU’s biggest rival during that time period. If Kelly achieves that in his first 9 years, he will not be on the hot seat.
All even the most ardent old-school fans ask is for a consistent 10-game winner, a shot at the national title on a regular basis and at least 1 national title. There is no reason an ND coach cannot achieve those results.
I'll name 2 in my lifetime
Lou Holtz and Dan Devine
I’m not saying I don’t want Notre Dame to return to past glory. I’m just saying the landscape is different then it was during the “glory years”.
Charlie Weis DID at least show you could still recruit at a high level in South Bend. But we still can’t compete with the Sec/Usc 30 recruits per cycle oversigning. Facts are facts. The world HAS changed. Kids have more options and opportunities today.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I would agree the landscape is different, but ND can still compete
I also think the administration has learned their lesson and won’t run off a Holtz/Devine type again. I think Devine is a strong example of what you’ve been talking about, but I think there was a lot more to pushing Holtz out the door than just wins and losses.
by JSB on Sep 23, 2010 7:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What a defeatist attitude
ND may not have the low academic standards or natural recruiting base that those schools have, but ND has it’s own unique advantages:
(1) Great academics
(2) High graduation rate/opportunities for football players post-football
(3) National recruiting base
(4) Every home game on national television + all road games on ESPN or ABC
(5) Greatest tradition/most national fan base
When an established college coach fails to produce a winning product, I might start to believe that it is hard to win at ND. Look at our last 3 coaches: (1) a defensive coordinator who has never had another head coaching job (2) a mediocre Pac-10 coach who drove another program into the ground; and (3) an NFL offensive coordinator who was exposed as a poor college head coach and likely will always be an NFL coordinator in the future.
What are these unrealistic expectations? To have this team in the national title conversation on a regular basis?
I'm not saying ND can't compete
I’m saying that an extremely vocal portion of the fanbase is untralistic.
That is a huge reason why we haven’t BEEN ABLE to get a proven college coach. At least before BK took the step up.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Really?
I think a feckless administration has more to do with it than unrealistic fan expectations. Who are these fans that are demanding a national title every year? Nobody I went to school with.
by JSB on Sep 23, 2010 7:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That sure didn't help
Fact is that before BK this time. Our last few coaching searches has made many coaches rich. While ND got 5th and 6th choices.
I do really have faith in BK. I just hope we can exercise the patience give him the time.
I also thought Charlie Weis could have gotten there eventually. He just needed to find the right DC. The fanbase turned on him extremely quick. Calls for his head started in 2007. Tough to win with that kind of negativity swirling around the program.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I am also think BK will succeed
But you lost me on Charlie. 3-9 at ND is unacceptable, he deserved to be on the hotseat after that debacle. Charlie failed because of his own shortcomings, not because of any negativity swirling the program. He just flat-out wasn’t a good college football coach. He didn’t know how to build and sustain a successful big-time program. Period. In reality he was probably given one year too many. There was no doubt after 2009 he was the wrong person to lead the program in the future.
He went to 2 BCS games in his first 2 years
Many people thought that 2007 could happen. With Willingham 2003 and the Willingham/Weis 2004. We lost 2 recruiting classes. We only had 70 Scholarship players on the 2007 roster. It was set up to fail.
Charlie just couldn’t seem to stem the tide once bad things happened to his team. Both the 2008 and 2009 teams started out looking good. Unfortunately once a heartbreaking loss happened. The team just seemed to fall apart.
I thought the ceiling of a Weis team was really high though. Because he was able to really recruit to South Bend. Something that hasn’t happened here in 20 years. He just couldn’t find a workable DC to help the other side of the ball.
BK to me is a more well rounded college coach. The BK ceiling might not be quite as high. But I think we will be a consistent 9-10 win program going forward. Will the fanbase accept that? Will we tire of that and push him out at some point?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Charlie sucked
I can’t believe you are defending him. He got some very nice offensive recruits. His defensive recruiting (apart from 2008) was abysmal. BK’s recruiting efforts so far this year look like they may be better than all but 2008 as far as the Weis years. The only coach in the history of ND that has failed at recruiting was Tyrone Willingham. Even Davie brought in some highly regarded classes. The 2005 team was good. The 2006 team folded against any good teams they played. They were pretty average. 2007 shouldn’t have been a good year, but if Weis was a good coach, there was no excuse for losing 9 games. That team was unbelievably bad. And the failure to hire a good defensive coordinator is on Weis. I am literally shocked that there is someone out there that still thinks Weis could have gotten the job done.
by JSB on Sep 23, 2010 11:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ultimately getting rid of Weis was the right call
Simply because we were able to get BK.
I still don’t think Charlie was Bob Davie or Ty Willingham bad. But I do agree that BK will be a more complete coach.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
That's a high bar you are setting there
There are probably 100 coaches (not an exagerration) out there that would be an upgrade over Ty Willingham or Bob Davie. But very few of that 100 are qualified to be the head coach at Notre Dame.
While that may be the case
It still didn’t stop the admin from botching the previous 3 hires in spectacular fashion. Once I understand.
But when it happens 3 times in a row, you have to ask yourself.
If this is such an awesome job, that every coach in America wants. Why have we not been able to fill it? Why have we had to resort to 6th and 7th choices to fill this job each time until BK?
It comes back around to my original point. Its a coach killing job with unrealistic expectations.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Because you had the same incompetent people doing the picking
Now, I don’t believe that ND botched hiring Stoops, but you can’t tell me that ND couldn’t have done better than Davie and Willingham? Come on. You are falling into a trap. They are feeding you crap and telling you that’s all that you can expect. Sorry, ND can and needs to do better. How has the college football landscape changed between 1995 and 2010 that prevent ND from competing? Certainly not the weather, not ND’s admissions standards, not Indiana’s status as a hotbed of talent, and not ND’s exposure on the national stage. Simply put I don’t buy the excuses.
by JSB on Sep 23, 2010 5:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
BUT...
BK wants the job, and knows how to get the best out of the kids. He has made do at the minors, and now is in the majors.
From the outside, people now see an energized coach, who is willing to hit the road, stand up for himself and his kids. Look at how quickly Cinci is coming back to earth, now that they don’t have him.
I have always had a soft spot for ND football, with my Irish-Catholic roots. I was amazed that Tyrone was out, and speechless when Weis was brought in.
I hope the alums and fans give Kelly the time to do in, he’ll have you smiling soon…
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